Every palm that is in the ground-z5 Iowa

For cold hardy palm tree enthusiasts.

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hardyjim
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Every palm that is in the ground-z5 Iowa

Post by hardyjim » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:28 am

Forecast is for temps running 30-40F(night) 55-65F and dry the next ten days.



You just saw some of these but here is the complete list,Cordyline in there too deserves(after returning 4 years in a row) some acknowledgment.

Here-

I will try and keep the center alive this year-it already came close!

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6188.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6188.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

The Trachys

The 2 that I started with in November 2007,both along
with the smaller of the 2 Fortunei pulled in 2010 and were cut (nearly)to the ground and recovered.

Earliest picture-probably April 2007-the one in front had been dead for months.

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... res010.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... res010.jpg" border="0" alt="2xfortunei 1 wagxfort, Notice yellow color of fort in back and wagxfort to left ,these 2 stayed out this winter!"></a>

What it looked like before it was chopped.

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -09026.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -09026.jpg" border="0" alt="T.fortunei"></a>

Chop suey

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10012.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -10012.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Now
I cut a dozen leaves off this year cold/drought-
"If it one thing its another"


T.Fortunei


<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6193.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6193.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


another T-cut T.Fortunei


<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6178.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6178.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Heres the Hayes "stiffie" that was planted with the big T.Fortunei,also trunk cut


<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6189.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6189.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Onward.............................

T.Tesan

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6170.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6170.jpg" border="0" alt="Every palm in the ground"></a>

This Tesan is 6 years old and has probably pulled
at least 6-10 times,combination of bug spray and cold.This will be the make or break year I suppose...I don't put anything past it though(happy)

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6187.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6187.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Waggie 1

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6171.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6171.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Waggie 2

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6175.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6175.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Smaller lighter colored and slower T.Nainital-already pulled....small palms can have it rough.

Only looks green because it is still around freezing...

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6179.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6179.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


Bigger faster greener Nainital-bought as
Takil from Collector palms in 2008


<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6183.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6183.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


T.Bulgaria

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6174.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6174.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

T.Takil 1

This one has not pulled and has been covered in snow-also has seen single digits-toughest seedling I have seen.


<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6190.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6190.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

T.Takil 2-spear pulled again in fall(this year and last)-just to much warmth before the cold hit.

It grew back 4 leaves this year=hope it is up for it again!



<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6194.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6194.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

2 Needle palms 1 is a clumper


<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6182.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6182.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6172.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6172.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

The Sabals

Sabal Louisiana

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6173.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6173.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6176.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6176.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6177.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6177.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6181.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6181.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6184.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6184.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


S.McCurtain a.k.a. Little Larrick

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6180.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6180.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

S.Brazoria

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6215.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6215.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

The coloration this time of year is spectacular-
wish I could capture more of it in these pics.

C.Cerifera 1

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6192.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6192.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

C.Cerifera 2

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6191.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6191.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

T.Princeps 1

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6186.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6186.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

T.princeps 2

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6185.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6185.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

B.Eriospatha-healthy recovery from "full pull"


<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6195.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6195.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


last and not least

The Washy-he gets 2


<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6157.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6157.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6218.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6218.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


Pretty sure that is it-next time they will be covered-

Would be cool to see the Washy make it to December
uncovered in Iowa!

I doubt it though!


THANKS 4 LOOKING!



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andym
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Post by andym » Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Thats a who's who of palms there Jim. :thumbleft: Its just a shame that for all that heat and looooong summer you've had they get trashed by your hard winter.
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TimMAz6
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Post by TimMAz6 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:38 pm

Jim...........you need to charge admission! :lol:

Great collection of palms. Love the small leaf Waggies! That large nanital must be from RPS 2000 when I ordered from them.

nani in background
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hardyjim
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Post by hardyjim » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:19 pm

andym wrote:Thats a who's who of palms there Jim. :thumbleft: Its just a shame that for all that heat and looooong summer you've had they get trashed by your hard winter.
I will see if I can keep that from happening...that said-

I am going to leave some of the larger Trachys out longer along with the Sabals and Needles....within reason.
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hardyjim
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Post by hardyjim » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:27 pm

Thanks Tim


The Nainital was bought from Collector palms as Takil in 2008.

It pulled the first 2 years but it is very fast grower,I cut off at least 10 leaves
that were burnt... most of the leaves it has it blasted out in the last 2 months.


<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... nts074.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... nts074.jpg" border="0" alt="T.takil, This is one of my favorites!!!"></a>
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canadianplant
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Post by canadianplant » Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:22 am

I cant remember if youve mentioned the needles and sabals had spear pull or rot
"The definition of insanity, is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results" - einstien

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hardyjim
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Post by hardyjim » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:55 am

canadianplant wrote:I cant remember if youve mentioned the needles and sabals had spear pull or rot


The clumper Needle was bought as a 7g,it was shipped bare root.

I think the people who sold it dug it up and went out of town-then shipped it
when they got back-the reason I say this is that it pulled before I even planted it.....

but the torture did not end there-I really didn't care for Needle palms to much at the time as you will see.


So,what do you do to a Needle palm you just planted that already pulled 9 spears?


I put it in a leaf cage with no heat of course and guess what-coldest temps in 30yrs
as the outside air temp was -18F(-16F in my micro climate :wink: )...think it got up to 1F that day.


What it looked like in August 2008-not as healthy as it looks.

Look how small the S.Louisiana to the right of it was!


<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08003.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08003.jpg" border="0" alt="Needle #1"></a>


<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08006.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... -08006.jpg" border="0" alt="Leaf pile(needle palm)"></a>


They unveiling

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 009002.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 009002.jpg" border="0" alt="burlap/under leaf cage"></a>


Leaving in an unheated leaf cage did not enhance the spear-pull situal.

It looked like it was mist sprayed and put in a deep freeze when I opened it.

<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 009007.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 009007.jpg" border="0" alt="needle 3-2-09"></a>


All the palms grown in warmer places then mine(all of them)tend to (literally) shrink from the cold until they find there footing.


Yesterday Nov 15-same palm


<a href="http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6182.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm22 ... 0_6182.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>



I guess the short answer is...no,the Needle and the Sabals have not pulled here-
that is pretty interesting when you think of the history of some of the palms here.




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lucky1
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Post by lucky1 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:21 am

Jim, with each picture I find a new favorite.
And end up having to look at all of them again.

Your camera does capture the blue beautifully.

What gets me is that your palms are sooooo healthy looking, not a mark on a leaf.
No bugs, no wind-shredded leaves, no fungus, no nutrient deficiency, no tip rot.
Well grown, Jim.

Your needles surprise me.
My new needle that I got from coconutmike was gorgeous when it arrived.
By the end of October, it was so shredded from wind that I gave it to John.
It was even too ugly to photograph.

I know the winter protection isn't the same for all of them.
And I know their ages are all different, and some have pulled time and again.
But now, after all these years, I'd like to read YOUR list of cold hardiness ratings.

oh...and you've gotta start stepping OVER that downspout :bootyshake:

And from those needle pics, look at how small the agaves used to be :shock:

My favs at your place? Gotta be the Washy...and the Waggies...
Oh, and the sabals...and butia.
Dammit...all of 'em. :D

Barb
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hardyjim
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Post by hardyjim » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:38 am

Thanks Barb

Bill was pointing out the other day that the Butia Eriospatha is getting
ready to blast off-it really was moving last year before it got pull.

It is definitely back-many leaves are getting that nice recurving pinnate
structure to them-in the past it only had one or two.
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lucky1
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Post by lucky1 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:21 pm

YOUR list of cold hardiness ratings
Would love to see your list based on your experience.

Good to hear the B.eriospatha is settling in.
Probably an under-rated palm.

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hardyjim
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Post by hardyjim » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:54 pm

The Needles have been the toughest,gone through all the all the spear-pulling
floods-wind-lack of rain(drought) heat and any other damn thing you can think of practically
and they don't seem to notice...I should add frozen in a leaf pile with outside temps -18F.

Never had a pull that I can recall,from whats alive :wink: none of the Sabals have pulled either....


The it comes down to..pulled the least-not one Trachy has pulled less than once.
My C.Cerifera only pulled once,keep in mind that it did not when other Trachys were being cut to the ground!

The B.Eriospatha has pulled once(more protected)...common theme,cold preceded by rainfall in early fall=sp.

One cool thing,the 2 Fortunei, 1 Nainital and 1Waggie are all in middle school now.

All 4 took snow and 12F in early March and none of them pulled-there were rings on the leaves so
they definitely noticed,they have also seen 2 nights of 22/20F high during the day was 39F
there was also 1.49" rain before this event,pretty hard ^^^^ to freeze a spear the size of a broom handle.

Smaller palms can not take this-they have to make it to junior high first.


BTW

The Washy has never pulled,just goes to show you that keeping the temps above freezing in the
enclosure is a slam dunk-if you can....it has however seen 18-22F(uncovered) last year
(Blackened chicken)-----I wrapped it this year for the 2 cold nights mentioned.

The Washy has seen 22 nights temps between 27/35F ranging 20F covered (with a couple sheets and a tarp) 27F to 35F uncovered.
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oppalm
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Post by oppalm » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:00 pm

Jim thats an impressive palm garden. I love the Waggies. I have 2 and they are not planted in ground yet. maybe someday. you are a machine. good on you. good luck with all your plants this winter.
Kent in Kansas
where it's cold in winter (always)
and hot in summer (usually)
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lucky1
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Post by lucky1 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:26 pm

when other Trachys were being cut to the ground!
Thinking of how often you cut the Trachies, that's why I asked.
Seems that Trachies are LOWER on the hardy list than we've been led to believe.

Those with subterranean/low bud points obviously are tougher.
Needles of course.
C.cerifera could beat Trachies for less damage?
Sabals (within reason...mild winter).

You make a good point about middle school and junior high...
Some people think palm youngsters should be planted out.
Assuming palms are somewhat insulated for winter, root mass seems to be important to get a palm through winter.
And that comes with age.

I continue to learn a lot from your experience/photos, Jim. Thanks!

...and how much I like Waggies now.

Barb
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hardyjim
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Post by hardyjim » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:29 am

Thanks Kent


Yea,that bigger Waggie is my favorite but the Princeps is close...couple more leaves.

The thing that always gets the palms is when there is cold before they are hardened off.

My palms coming out of winter although slowed down by the cold are extremely tough.

I know the Waggie saw 6F once briefly before the lights came on...better to protect them
early and take them out on nice winter/late fall days/weeks,I never did and some
made it anyway,these are big enough to take it now but I do protect the smaller ones earlier now,
the bigger older ones always pave the way for the youngsters.....if they only knew the horrors!


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Jason? You just missed him!
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lucky1
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Post by lucky1 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:30 am

better to protect them early and take them out on nice winter/late fall days/weeks
Trachies seem to like growing way too long into the Fall season, so that's necessary to slow them down.
It'll be interesting to see how the tesans, princeps etc do compared to the fortuneis.

That photo makes me shudder, Jim. :shock:

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hardyjim
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Post by hardyjim » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:19 am

What happens every fall....into winter,is you get this ratcheting downward of temps.

Here we usually get a strong serge of cold that pushes temps back below normal
and then the temps recover and stay above normal until the next adjustment downward...
but as we all know,sometimes it doesn't let us back up...anyway-

If we get a decent cold push in Sept/Oct and it follows significantly warm weather-
then having 5"+ rain and temps 75/85F apparently even a week of 28/32F(nights) is enough to
for those youngsters to jettison their leaders....

As I mentioned,it would be fun in a lab (greenhouse with a freezer :D )to gradually take
these cold hardy palms colder and colder letting them adjust each time....
Probably see palms that can take 0(F) over and over-they do loose their elasticity after a while though..
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lucky1
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Location: Vernon BC, Zone 5a or 5b (close to 6A!)

Post by lucky1 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:36 am

would be fun in a lab (greenhouse with a freezer icon_biggrin.gif )to gradually take
these cold hardy palms colder and colder
The scientist in you...

The best scenario would be lots of rain during summer, and none in Fall as temps cool.
Even better would be the "warming" promised-threatened for winter, not summer.

Just a Q...are takil, tesan, princeps ALL fortunei variants?
i.e. just "mutations" of the same thing?

Barb
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If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt.

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TerdalFarm
Palm Grove
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:48 pm
Location: Manzanita, OR
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Post by TerdalFarm » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:12 am

I've thought of doing that experiment with various Sabal minor ecotypes. One of these years.
Speaking of Sabal, the Lous look great there.

Glad to hear about the needle palms. Not news to anyone, but they really are very tough.

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hardyjim
Palm Grove
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Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:00 pm
Location: Fairfield Iowa 5b

Post by hardyjim » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:05 am

The Sabals have been a big surprise,they have had divided leaves
for a couple year but they are raising the up on taller petioles-very cool!
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coconutmike
Seedling
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:17 pm
Location: montreal zone 5b

looking good

Post by coconutmike » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:53 pm

I have not posted for a bit and I see that your trachy's reaaly gave a push this year good job
mike

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