Washys are covered

[hardyjim]

So are the ferns.

Here is what I did to cover them.

The gathering-



Lights/thermocube in-


Wrap it up,1 layer of 1" bubble wrap,the a foam wrap,then another layer of bubble and covered-




Hopefully they are secured enough,so I don't end up chasing them down the street




50(F) outside now,72(F) in the Washy hut.

[TerdalFarm]

Jim,
I really appreciate the detailed photos you provide. I read descriptions, but seeing them is so much more helpful.
As for Washy, all mine (2 each of filifera and robusta) are in pots and coming in soon. W knows my track record with these in the ground
Can you detail tree fern protection on GOTE?
--Erik

[Cowtown Palm Society]

That looks professional Jim . I love Washys, but I find them by far the most fragile between Trachy, Med. Fan and Needle. I fried my Robusta in a pot at about -6c (say 21f) this fall. The others, no problem. Mind you, the others were in pots, in the ground .

BTW, are those beauties Robusta, Filfera or, what do they say, "Filabusta"?

Duncan

[ZeroLT1]

That looks professional

Took the words right out of my mouth. Amazing job!

[igor.glukhovtsev]

Jim! And you insist you are Zone 5b? Unbelievable! What's going on with your USDA zones, guys?

[ScottyON]

Very nice Jim!! Love the bubble wrap idea!!

[hardyjim]

Jim! And you insist you are Zone 5b? Unbelievable! What's going on with your USDA zones, guys?

Thanks guys!


Igor,I don't insist,really ,mother nature does,winter before last was -18(F)or -28c.
Record low here I believe is -30(F),-35c


I like posting the whole process as I think it's important to share our ideas,
at least until I delete all my post's and write a book -just kidding!


Duncan

I think the front one is Robusta and the back one is Filifera but I can't be sure.
I do have 2 Filibustas in pots.


Erik-

I meant to take a picture of the T.ferns but I forgot.

Really not to complicated,I did end up trimming the Cooperi(as much as I hated too ),
I really felt like I needed them in the same size protection so I know what the temp is
without using 7 thermometers.

They are in styrofoam rose covers with 8-10 lights (depending on bulb size,c-7 and c-9 respectively)
and hooked up to a T-3 thermocube-I always leave one bulb out between the covers so I can see if they are on.

[lucky1]

Good pics of the process, Jim.

These were the palms that got leaf cages last year?
Or only the smaller palms get leaf cages.
I really like the slat-fence (snow fencing?) idea...durable, quick construction but in my area I would've had to pound some metal ties from it into the ground because of our winds.

Too early to close the end panels of your cactus GH cage at your current temps.

Barb

[hardyjim]

Yea Barb,that is what it is,it was like $40 for 50',I thought a pretty good deal
and I can always add to it as long as it's secured to something.

One of the Washys was in an umbrella g-house with a tarp and a layer of plastic over that,
the 2 of these enclosures use only a couple more lights than the set up last year.

If you notice in the second pic,I put the thermocube on the north side about half way up,
there are 24 c-9 lights in each enclosure.

The cactus cover hasn't even been covered with the rain shield for more than 2 days,
only 2 days with rain in almost 2 months!

Sure makes life easy.

I think everything goes up today and tomorrow just to be safe-there may be rain
before we take our big temp plunge to the teens Wednesday,don't want no dang water sitting
in the crowns when the cold hits

[lucky1]

Yup, I remember that little umbrella GH.
After a while the plastic gets brittle? would the tarp over it keep the plastic supple with really cold temps? (obviously heated inside)
My little GH plastic has never been frozen and it's feeling less "bendable" every year.

Yes I noticed the thermocube halfway up, just inside the enclosure. Makes sense.
Surprised you need 24 C-9's but better to be over- than under-protective. (as my mother used to say )

Let's hope you get an easier winter than last year.

Where's our Billy? and his protection pics?
Barb

[hardyjim]

Billy boy is a busy man,remember in addition to building his green house he still has to
move everything too-not to mention covering all his other stuff!


Bill thought I might need more lights ,we'll see,
I can always put more insulation,tarps,covers-whatever on the outside
because it sure as H ain't gonna be easy to open her up.

Probably be late Feb before that happens.


The pvc plastic isn't to bad,the only problem I had with it is when ice was falling
off the trees and it went right through it-it taped up easily though.

[lucky1]

and get his website done. It'll be good to see that.
Thank goodness he's still young, carrying 500 plants into the basement is good exercise. (NOT!)

might need more lights

More than 24 on that palm, controlled by a T-3????
So you can BBQ your steak on top?

ice was falling off the trees and it went right through it

as long as it's only icicles, not branches.

Barb

[Paul Ont]

Thanks Jim- Very informative as usual!

[mnpalms]

Looking good Jim! Your insulation method is somewhat similar to mine (for trachies and large trunked yucca). My only Washy remains potted and has recently come indoors for the winter. I don't dare put a washy in the ground here as they grow faster and would become a real hassle to protect here in MN in no time.

My palm protection uses bubble wrap insulation also but it is the silver stuff that is sold as home insulation. It is only about 1/2" thick but is super efficient. It costs about $30 for a roll of 25'x4'. My enclosure takes 2 rolls but the stuff is re-useable year-to-year. Basically I added a second roll this year when I expanded my enclosure to accomodate the additional plants.

I build a frame driving 2x2x8' pine wood into the ground a little bit and stabilize it all together with 1x3 pine. It all screws together easily using a cordless drill. The roof is just criss-crossed supports of 1x3 wood and a layer of carpet stapled to it. It is strong and rigid. On the outside of the enclosure, before the insulation is mounted, is chicken wire all around for more support and protection from the wind pushing in at it. Then on top of the chicken wire goes a layer of old bed comforters and blankets. On top of that goes the bubble wrap insulation. Then on top of the bubble wrap goes a large boat cover which is tied tight over it all. The roof is covered in bubble wrap insulation on top of the carpet also. Aside from stapling in a few spots, the bubble wrap is sealed and mounted using high-quality duct tape. It looks a bit ugly until the boat cover goes on but works extremely well and will not come off until I carefully peel it back in the spring so I can re-use the insulation next year. Leaf bags around the outside base for added ground protection. The heating consists of one CFL 24W bulb in a reflector fixture (always on) and 2 strings of C-7 Xmas lights and a string of C-9s which are all on Thermocube 35f/45f. No lights on the ground in there, none actually touching any of the trees. They are just zig-zagged throughout hanging. So far this is working very well according to my remote thermometer but I still might add another light to the thermocube like a 50w flood or something just to be safe in the dead of winter. I will not make the mistake of over-protecting this year though! I'll snap some pics today and post them here.

[TimMAz6]

your palms look warm already!

[TerdalFarm]

mnpalms,
thanks for the details. I look forward to the photos.
May I suggest that you start your own thread? I get confused easily and want to find your protection vs. Jims easily in the future. --Erik

[canadianplant]

Jim great protection!!!!

Ok, so are thermacubes the plugs that kick on what evers plugged in, when the temps go below a certain temp?? Arent yyou worried that those lights might catch fire? especialy if there are leaves in there???

Ive just been thinking on how similar mine and your climates are jim....... you may be statisticaly warmer then me ( i think its by 5 degrees if that), were ususaly share the same climate as far as cold goes. In light of that, im possitive ill find a way to get palms and more to grow here.

I know youve mentioned it, but what kind of tree ferns do you have? Most of the cold hardy one sive found are only hardy to zone 7. Can you show a pic of the protection you use for them???

[hardyjim]

mnpalms,
thanks for the details. I look forward to the photos.
May I suggest that you start your own thread? I get confused easily and want to find your protection vs. Jims easily in the future. --Erik

What could be easier than having it in the same thread?


Sounds like you have plenty of insulation and heat source in there Kory.
I like the large bubble bubble wrap because it only cost me $37 delivered for 125'

I think a great plan that this guy in (I think)maybe NJ or Penn used is putting some permanent metal
sleeves into the ground and inserting removable poles,he used pvc pipe and built a cool structure over his
(if I remember correctly)Washy?


Anyway,Bill is doing something similar for (at least) his Washys,maybe he will post some pics.

It may cost a little more but once set up,it is easy and very strong.



Thanks Paul

[lucky1]

good description of your protection, mnpalms.
Does your roof hold a heavy/wet snow? or is there enough interior heat to melt accumulating snow on roof?

Sheesh, Jim your comment about metal sleeves in the ground reminded me of what I did years ago to protect small veggie garden from late spring frost.

4-foot lengths of galvanized round pipe (about 2" diameter) were sledge-hammered into the ground at the 10-foot wide garden bed perimeter, three per side.
One-inch lengths of PVC pipe were inserted into the round pipe, taped with duct tape to hold them inside, then other end was bent to slip into the opposite one, forming a dome similar to your desert garden protection.

Comical watching someone try to catch the upright PVC piece to bend it and slip it into the opposite pipe.
4ml plastic was stretched over the dome, edges held with bricks.

The idea could easily move to winter protection with heavier PVC to handle winter snowload...but PVC needs to be longer for taller palms.
PVC would need to be braced to prevent forward-or-backward "flop" from heavy winds.

Look forward to all the "promised" pics.
Barb

[hardyjim]

This guy used pretty think pvc,like 3-4" stuff,
it was also connected together in a frame,so it was
very strong!

[lucky1]

I think I've seen a pic of that framed set-up somewhere on the net.
Had some interesting connectors too for both the wood and the pvc if I recall.

[BILL MA]

Looking really good Jim, just how I imagined it BTW, the green house is up, palms are in it, getting the furnace tomorrow, and building washy houses in between. Home stretch I can feel it!!! I'll post some pictures for you soon Barb, trust me no snoozing here

Bill

[hardyjim]

Jesse-

The thermocube comes on at 35(F) and off at 45(F),there are no leaves in there
and IMO the lights don't get hot enough to catch fire,although I suppose anything electrical can.

As far as our climate being similar......I don't think so,Erik says the same thing but he is like 500-600 miles
south of me and it can be downright warm there when it's frigid here,they have native palms where he lives,
the last few years here even the Ceders got burned.

Example-as I write this it is 28(F)there and 52(F) here,I would say Bill and I's climate is more similar but
he was only like 5(F)last year at the lowest and here it was -12(F) the year before he was around 5(F) again and it was
-18(F)here but we get a lot more heat here in the summer then Bill does.
If you average out the temps over the year Bill and I's places look similar but it's the extremes and duration that define all
our zones-that said,I am sure you could grow palms where you are with the right set-up
It is going to be cold here in a few days for the first time this fall!

Bill-

Looking forward to seeing those pics.

[TerdalFarm]

I'm looking forward to Bill's photos as well.
Jim may be right about climate differences. I am closer to the Gulf of Mexico. Not close enough for me, but it makes a difference. Morning low was a record high 68 oF today--we slept with the windows open. And the lows this week will probably be a mere 20 oF. Not good for Washy, but plenty of other palms can take that.

[JackLord]

Nice job. They look like cocoons.

I never tied my fonds before this year and find it rather cumbersome. What kind of twine/rope do you use?

[hardyjim]

I just used the rope sold for clothes lines.

I know what you mean about it being cumbersome to tie them up,
Bill and I where laughing about that the other day-he said he had his clippers near by,
I thought about cutting the leaves off too!

Hopefully it will be worth it to save them and they will get a good jump in spring-
of course that just means more to protect next year!

[hardyjim]

mnpalms,
thanks for the details. I look forward to the photos.
May I suggest that you start your own thread? I get confused easily and want to find your protection vs. Jims easily in the future. --Erik

What could be easier than having it in the same thread?



I think a great plan that this guy in (I think)maybe NJ or Penn used is putting some permanent metal
sleeves into the ground and inserting removable poles,he used pvc pipe and built a cool structure over his
(if I remember correctly)Washy?


Anyway,Bill is doing something similar for (at least) his Washys,maybe he will post some pics.

It may cost a little more but once set up,it is easy and very strong.



Thanks Paul

Lucky break,found the link to the guys protection I mentioned in this post.


http://home.ptd.net/~mishele/webpage/protection2.htm

[TerdalFarm]

Thanks, Jim. That is a great link.
On the technical side, I liked the explanation of why they use water jugs in the enclosures. That is a key part of my winter protection, and I know it is for Bill. Does everyone use water in containers for thermal buffering?
On the aesthetic side, those Washy enclosures actually look good. Mine look like
Maybe a goal for me for next year will be to design palm huts that actually look nice.
--Erik

[hardyjim]

The other nice quality about them is they are reasonably simple.

He also has milder winters than me as one layer of plastic would not protect a Washy
here without a ridiculous amount of heat!

[TerdalFarm]

I am sure I used too much electricity last night. Must insulate more....

And of course I am convinced Washy die if I merely look at 'em funny.

Still, I did like his basic design. Not too much work, not very expensive to make. --Erik

[lucky1]

Thanks for that link, Jim
I remember pounding steel rod (solid so it wouldn't fill up with soil/rocks) to make room for PVC to be slipped into it.
Using the sledgehammer, I lost 5 pounds.

Very interesting, great palm protection.
The really nice thing about that is the ability to cut with a hacksaw and add sections to make it taller.
And who hasn't cut, primed and glued miles of PVC in their lives...

That "wiggle wire" is an excellent idea.
Proof again of "where there's a will, there's a way".

Barb

[hardyjim]

Thanks for that link, Jim

Proof again of "where there's a will, there's a way".

Barb

Yea Barb-

Building any larger structure out of any kind of plastic there is always the issue of
how to close the plastic up,any kind of tape will blow apart on a windy day.
Another is the type of roof,especially in snowy areas.

I made my structures with 3 layers of wire fencing,2 on the inside for strength and
one on the outside over the taped layers to hold it firm against the other layer and
keep it from being blow apart by wind.

The top is a trash can lid with a few layers of insulation between the lid and enclosure,
similar to what he did on the site link I posted with the (looks like a) sled/baby pool.

[lucky1]

Jim,
Your wire fencing--while strong--can be beefed up with a vertical broom-handle (like a tent pole) in the middle.
Just have to "soften" the point with an insulation-covered board to spread the weight a bit so it doesn't poke through.

Or your trash can lid

BTW, has he heard of how much fun we are at Palms North? (i.e. join us?) Ahem...

Erik, he was smart to use Sched 40 for his "inserts" into the planter as supports for the PVC.
It's a heck of a lot stronger--but $$$$$--than regular PVC.
My old veggie garden supports were just round metal pipes into which the full-length PVC fit was slipped.
Then I duct-taped the PVC where they entered the metal pipes so they wouldn't pull out in a storm.

Barb

[sidpook]

I'm jealous, I covered my trachy with an umbrella greenhouse last year and it rotted, turned to mush....What did I do wrong??

[TerdalFarm]

Mike,
I often feel jealous when I see the amazing photos and plant successes. You know I'm especially jealous if your bananas.

As for your Trachy, hopefully the Trachy experts will help out, probably by asking detailed questions I wouldn't think to ask.

I'll give it a try, as like most everyone else here I too want to keep Trachy alive this winter.

My recollection is that you did not get super cold--cold, just not extremely cold. Did you have a wet late winter?

I'm trying to let Trachy get better air flow and some morning sunshine currently. And I plan to remove cover earlier this winter. Even though I complained about the cold last winter, it really never got super cold again after mid-January. Yet I left protection up to early April (our 2nd biggest snow was the end of March). Still, not particularly cold.

--Erik

[sidpook]

We had a very wet winter and a very wet spring, we were up 18 inches in precipitation over normal average. The snow was insane too, 2 storms of 21" and 25" back to back and one storm of 23"...plus a few other smaller storms...It was a wet winter, and I think I babied my trachy too much and made it too warm and moist inside the covering. That'll learn me.


Good luck with your trachy...They are such cool palms....

Incidentally, In the back yard my bananas are covered and I was able to take in 6 five foot tall pups with a lot of roots...They look nice and get a lot of southern exposure in the front florida room , it is a great place for plants, no room for people right now, just plants...LOL
Chat soon...

[hardyjim]

Jim,
Your wire fencing--while strong--can be beefed up with a vertical broom-handle (like a tent pole) in the middle.
Just have to "soften" the point with an insulation-covered board to spread the weight a bit so it doesn't poke through.

Barb

So just go ahead and hammer that into the palm then


I anchor all the little palm covers into the ground.... not to exposed here to wind and
not a lot of force acting on a round surface.
The bigger Washy covers have 3 rebar poles woven through the frame and
hammered into the ground,they are then bungee corded to 6' metal poles
that are also hammered into the ground,all this stuff should be even more reinforced
when the ground freezes,if it doesn't at least cold won't be the problem -
just chasing your palm covers down the street!




Mike -

It sounds like to much ground moisture.

[BILL MA]

You sure did have snow last year Mike You have a very favorable climate to grow a trachy, I've seen many pictures of them growing unprotected in your area with a super micro climate of course. I'm sure you have a place in mind up against your house somewhere maybe you can dig out a rhodie or azalea in the spring for one

Bill

[sidpook]

Jim,
Your wire fencing--while strong--can be beefed up with a vertical broom-handle (like a tent pole) in the middle.
Just have to "soften" the point with an insulation-covered board to spread the weight a bit so it doesn't poke through.

Barb

So just go ahead and hammer that into the palm then


I anchor all the little palm covers into the ground.... not to exposed here to wind and
not a lot of force acting on a round surface.
The bigger Washy covers have 3 rebar poles woven through the frame and
hammered into the ground,they are then bungee corded to 6' metal poles
that are also hammered into the ground,all this stuff should be even more reinforced
when the ground freezes,if it doesn't at least cold won't be the problem -
just chasing your palm covers down the street!




Mike -

It sounds like to much ground moisture.

Could have been, it was insanely moist, I remember seeing duck and gees in lakes and ponds that were formed on people's front lawns....never there before.

[sidpook]

You sure did have snow last year Mike You have a very favorable climate to grow a trachy, I've seen many pictures of them growing unprotected in your area with a super micro climate of course. I'm sure you have a place in mind up against your house somewhere maybe you can dig out a rhodie or azalea in the spring for one

Bill

right....I could find a place i'm sure,