cold protection question (heating cables)

For cold hardy palm tree enthusiasts.

Moderators: lucky1, Alchris, Kansas, Wes North Van, Laaz

Post Reply
KirkCO
Seed
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:45 pm

cold protection question (heating cables)

Post by KirkCO »

I'm wondering what type of heating cables are the most effective for wrapping around palms. Also, do you wrap them in the soil and around the trunk? Thanks! (Getting ideas for this winter!)
User avatar
Paul Ont
Large Palm
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:58 am
Location: zone 6a Downtown Toronto and zone 5a Kingston

Post by Paul Ont »

Kirk- I use heating cables in my enclosure, but the palms I am overwintering are zone 7 palms, not the zone 9ers some on this board grow! I wrap the cables around large water bottles and then also string mini lights in the foliage of the palms. The lights are on all of the time, but the cables turn on at 38f (or so) and off at 45f! I can't recall the brand name right now.

If you're growing things way out of zone some others may have better suggestions (insulation, lights, space heaters..)
User avatar
hardyjim
Palm Grove
Posts: 4696
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:00 pm
Location: Fairfield Iowa 5b

Post by hardyjim »

I would seriously question using heating cables in any area that is not very localized
as they are really designed for heating/warming the surface area they are in contact with.

I think they would be fine for keeping a trunk warm that is very closely wrapped but not
as the main heat source in an open area.

As far a warming the soil like our good friend Bill does,they need to be buried within/
or better yet beneath the roots to take advantage of heat rising.
Someone on this board can tell you a story about burying them under mulch
and drying out the soil/feeder roots of a very nice Trachy-R.I.P.
<img src="http://weathersticker.wunderground.com/ ... rfield.gif" alt="Click for Fairfield, Iowa Forecast" border="0" height="60" width="468" />
KirkCO
Seed
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:45 pm

Thanks!

Post by KirkCO »

Thanks for all of your opinions!
User avatar
BILL MA
Large Palm
Posts: 1273
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:25 am
Location: Southern Mass.

Post by BILL MA »

Hi Kirk,

Sorry I didn't respond earlier. Here's my take, heating cables are useless in my opinion unless there under ground.

Others have had luck but I'd use c 9 lights all day before external cables, my palms always come out perfect using them. There cheap to run and really work well in palm huts. If your doing a leaf en-closer cables might work fine but I'd ask others before doing it as I haven't tried it personally.

Bill
lucky1
Arctic Palm Plantation
Posts: 11325
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:31 pm
Location: Vernon BC, Zone 5a or 5b (close to 6A!)

Post by lucky1 »

Bill, can you post a pic of the underground cables beneath your nanas?
the one where you had them laid out before the nanas were planted.
Barb
<img src="http://weathersticker.wunderground.com/ ... anguage=EN" alt="Find more about Weather in Vernon, CA" width="160" />


If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt.
User avatar
BILL MA
Large Palm
Posts: 1273
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:25 am
Location: Southern Mass.

Post by BILL MA »

Here it is Barb. The circle one is from under one of my washies, all three have the cables.

Image
Image

Bill
lucky1
Arctic Palm Plantation
Posts: 11325
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:31 pm
Location: Vernon BC, Zone 5a or 5b (close to 6A!)

Post by lucky1 »

That's it, thanks Bill.
Great pictures, I should bookmark their location (for next time).
Barb
<img src="http://weathersticker.wunderground.com/ ... anguage=EN" alt="Find more about Weather in Vernon, CA" width="160" />


If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt.
User avatar
BILL MA
Large Palm
Posts: 1273
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:25 am
Location: Southern Mass.

Post by BILL MA »

Your welcome Barb.
I can't wait to post my new front yard pictures I'm just about done.

Bill
lucky1
Arctic Palm Plantation
Posts: 11325
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:31 pm
Location: Vernon BC, Zone 5a or 5b (close to 6A!)

Post by lucky1 »

Can't wait to see the pics, Bill.
And how about the whole place too?
You've got a nursery out there!

Thanks!
Barb
<img src="http://weathersticker.wunderground.com/ ... anguage=EN" alt="Find more about Weather in Vernon, CA" width="160" />


If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt.
User avatar
hardyjim
Palm Grove
Posts: 4696
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:00 pm
Location: Fairfield Iowa 5b

Post by hardyjim »

BILL MA wrote:Your welcome Barb.
I can't wait to post my new front yard pictures I'm just about done.

Bill











:shock: :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :shock:
<img src="http://weathersticker.wunderground.com/ ... rfield.gif" alt="Click for Fairfield, Iowa Forecast" border="0" height="60" width="468" />
User avatar
BILL MA
Large Palm
Posts: 1273
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:25 am
Location: Southern Mass.

Post by BILL MA »

Mulch tomorrow and a few touch-ups!
User avatar
TerdalFarm
Palm Grove
Posts: 2979
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:48 pm
Location: Manzanita, OR
Contact:

Post by TerdalFarm »

I'm looking forward to it. Include a snap shot of the new Sabal you just planted. I'm all into Sabal right now, both for thew new one my wife brought home Wednesday plus because the Sabal "Birmingham" seeds I'm germinating are growing well.
As for me, mulch and touch up will be done over Memorial Day weekend.
--Erik
User avatar
TerdalFarm
Palm Grove
Posts: 2979
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:48 pm
Location: Manzanita, OR
Contact:

pipe heating cable

Post by TerdalFarm »

I experimented with pipe heating cable this winter and was very impressed.
The specific model was M-D pipe heating cable, which I found inexpensively at the corner hardware store.
If you'll forgive the tiny sample size, here is the experiment.
For three winters, I had had a small Ch. humilis and Butia in the ground. Both are usually thought of as zone 8. I protected them the same way: packed hay and covered with a 20 gallon bucket. Both survived each winter but with near complete defoliation. This winter, the Butia was treated the same but the Chammy had 3' of the heat cable wrapped around the trunk.

Here is a photo of the Chammy:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/2V ... site"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/S3cnm ... GP1108.JPG" /></a>

This spring, the Butia was defoliated as usual. It is growing, though. The Chammy was not defoliated and is growing faster than in previous years.

Thanks to Hardyjim--he is the one who told me that the heat cable must be in direct contact with the trunk and spear to be effective.

--Erik
mnpalms
Seedling
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:17 pm
Location: MN, zone 4b/5a and Cape Coral FL (coastal), zone 10b

Post by mnpalms »

"I would seriously question using heating cables in any area that is not very localized
as they are really designed for heating/warming the surface area they are in contact with.

I think they would be fine for keeping a trunk warm that is very closely wrapped but not
as the main heat source in an open area.

As far a warming the soil like our good friend Bill does,they need to be buried within/
or better yet beneath the roots to take advantage of heat rising.
Someone on this board can tell you a story about burying them under mulch
and drying out the soil/feeder roots of a very nice Trachy-R.I.P."

I fully agree with Jim. I learned that lesson the hard way... I'm sure the cables are useful for giving things a head start and/or speeding them up, but used inside an enclosure during the dead of winter is not a good idea as I have learned.
User avatar
TerdalFarm
Palm Grove
Posts: 2979
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:48 pm
Location: Manzanita, OR
Contact:

pipe heating cable in enclosure

Post by TerdalFarm »

Bill, Jim and mnpalms all know a lot more than I do about overwintering palms.
I have a single datum about using pipe heating cable as the only heat source in an enclosure.
I wrapped 30 watts worth around the trunk and spear of my large Butia, covered that in burlap, and put a 4' x 4' x 4' plastic "palm hut" with insulation on the top over it. I put a 5 gallon water jug inside to buffer temp. fluctuations.
Here is a photo from February:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Cw ... site"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/S3cnn ... GP1109.JPG" /></a>

In my opinion, it worked great. When outside air temps got to 4oF, it was upper single digits inside. That should have done in the leaves, but they came out great (except where they contacted the plastic walls; those were toast).

I simplistically think of the trunk and spear as water pipes and so pipe heating cable makes sense to me.

I think some of the confusion comes from using the same phrase, "heat cable", to refer to both the seed germination heat cable Bill uses under his bananas and the pipe heating cable I wrapped around trunks/spears.
--Erik
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests