Which palms have you tried outside?

ronbruce · Post by **ronbruce** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:45 am

I've tried Sabal minor outside and killed them.

I've got two clumps of Trachcarpus fortunei outside and after three winters they still look good. I had them covered with some leaves and our winter got down to -22C/-8F in Dec 2008. Also we didn't get above freezing for fourteen days that month so those few leaves obviously did a world of good.

I think I'll need to stick a thermometer out there this winter to see what temperature is under the leaves.

I really would like to try some other Trachycarpus and Butia and Washingtonia (just for fun of course) and maybe even Trithrinax and Rhapidophyllum of course. I've got more Sabal minor seeds on the way so am not giving up on them either.

I always want to stick others out there like Livistona as an annual but always feel guilty and bring them back in for winter.

And then there are the yuccas I must try.....

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:07 am

To many to list!

ronbruce · Post by **ronbruce** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:34 pm

Well maybe just with the palms you've had success with then.

DesertZone · Post by **DesertZone** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:14 pm

Needle, trachy, med-fan, filifera, sabal minor, robusta, sabal riverside, nanno, and some others. All dead. The needle did the best for me.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:37 pm

T.fortunei
T.wagnerianus
T.wagxfort
S.louisiana
R.hystrix
S.brazoria
C.cerifera

T.campestris
S.birmingham
S.etonia
S.texiana

W.robusta

N.ritcheana
Mystery Sabal

All made it to spring but were either dug up for different larger palms or were so beat up from winter that I pulled them.
Most of the second group were really to small for cold testing as most Sabals strap leaves are not cold hardy,this leaves them in a pretty ugly state to recover from,thus,they were pulled.Washys were not mulched enough but made it.A wet spring finished them off,1 will be tried again and protected with leaves left on,along with B.eriospatha.Mazari was coming back strong but once again was knocked off by cold/wet spring. All the palms that made it were more mature.I would recommend only trying palms with a healthy set of mature fans.

A cordyline Austrailus also came back from it's roots and looks good.
Indivisa also would have come back strong if I wouldn't have pulled it,I regret that.

I also have about 25-30 "cactus" that made it through!
Only loses were from to much spring rain,a few were even about to bloom but stopped cold(wet)and parished from rot.

All in all,about thirty palms and thirty "cactus"tried.I would say the success rate was better than 80% overwintered, to much spring rain was the big prob!

Most everything made it through winter,I will keep them dry next spring!

ronbruce · Post by **ronbruce** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:07 pm

Wow, I need to catch up to the rest of you and learn, learn, learn.

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:33 am

This will be the winter for me. I have 17 good sized palms that I will be protecting this winter.

T.fortunei, R.hystrix , S.minor, Serenoa repens, W.robusta, C.cerifera

Bill

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:34 am

Jim, What is C. cerifera? I assume you're referring to the blue C. humilis, and if so, then that is quite impressive!

I'm impressed wth the list, especially the different Sabals. I love Sabal mexicana and the Brazoria county Sabal (whatever it is), how have they done for you?

What sort of protection did these all need to retain green foliage?

As for myself I have tried the following:

T. fortunei- See earlier post. Survives with minor protection but it is not happy. I have about 10 million seedlings getting divided leaves. I'll try these next summer with various protection strategies.

R. hystrix- Needs protection here. Will survive but look ragged if unprotected/under-protected.

Sabal minor- New plants are very susceptable to cold damage. I had a larger one survive -15C protected but was still quite damaged... Young ones with strap/newly divided leaves survive, but don't look like palms if under or improper protection

C. humilis (from B.C. seed!)- Single strap leafed plant, totally killed by the winter. No protection.

The best thing to do is to get some palms (perferably small and cheap), take advice from others, plant them out and see what works for you!

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:46 am

Aaron all of those palms bit the dust? What size where they?

Jim & Paul I'm impressed but that goes without saying.

Paul, I assume you found that fertilizer link ok? Make sure itf you order some to get a good amount because shipping is high. I think I wrote that but I don't remember.

Bill

wxman · Post by **wxman** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:28 am

Bill,

What's your money budget this year for building enclosures for your 17 palms? I couldn't fathom protecting that many.

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:26 pm

The sky's the limit wxman! Just kidding. Good thing I don't use 17 750 watt heaters though right! I still think that's to much heat and I think you should use christmas lights. This is the last time I'm going to say it though. If you don't believe me we should find artic palms email and ask him what he thinks. You might be cold in Wisconcin but he's got you beat by a lot. He lives on a open plain with I can't even imagine how much wind chill and cold. He uses lights, and not even christmas light just 3 100 watt florecents which work out to like 70 watts maybe. I just don't want you to cook your palms that's why I keep saying this.

By the way my budget is not all that much. The insulation panels for the washys and med fan will be the most expensive. After that just a few lights on a regular theromostate with a relay switch to keep them at 38-40 degrees. Way cheaper to heat and much more consistant temps. Watts are Watts so that seems to be my best bet. I have tons of 6 mil plastic for the other more hardy palm that I can use leaves with.

DesertZone · Post by **DesertZone** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:10 pm

BILL MA wrote:Aaron all of those palms bit the dust? What size where they?

Bill

Any where from seedlings to 5-gals, but most were 1-5gallons. I still have some palms that I might try later on "zone 6 louisiana sabals I have grown from seed", but most of my other palms will be going to AZ. It takes to much protection here for a palm to do very well over a winter so I just stay with my yucca and stuff.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:07 pm

Paul.yes thats correct C.cerifera
Some of the sabals made it through(all in the first list)the problem was that they were so small(only strap leaves),the strap leaves are not very hardy.Fan leaves exibit more cold hardiness.Although most of these palms pulled through winter,I replaced the ones in the second list because they would have taken all summer to recover.
I replaced -1 cerifera,a couple of Sabals,Trithrinax.What I have discovered is that if palms don't start moving(especially the slower one like Sabals) they are unlikely to replace lost mass,with the exception of S.louisiana.This is a great Sabal! Also my S.brazoria with only strap leaves (2 new leaves this year)was completely undamaged this winter! Unbelievable for such a small palm.

Okanagan desert-palms · Post by **Okanagan desert-palms** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:42 pm

I have four 15 gal.T. fortunei. Two 7 ga. Needle palms. Three 3 gal. Needle palms. One this spring planted 7 gal sabal minor. I`ll see how it does this winter . All Needle palms have lost their spears. One 3 gal. is dead the others are growing from their off shoots. All have been in the same palm huts that the Trachy`s have survived and are now thriving. IMO the larger the cold hardy palm planted early enough with the right protection, the more root mass it has to survive. I`ll have some pics once I do an inventory of everything. I should be done around Oct.

John

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:27 am

Yea,I think if your trying any palm with just strap leaves you will have a hard time bringing it through,esp Sabals as they take(in some cases)a few years to recover.One exception in my experience is S.louisiana,I have one that totally defoliated over winter for to much sun/heat(wxman)it has recovered and is working on leaf 3,pretty dang good for a Sabal! esp one that sarted from zilch.This Sabal is beginning to put out fans though so there you go.
All that said I am trying Mazari seedlings again,they are probably to small to make it but what the hell,they came in a three palm package with my Trithrinax and Silver Bismarkia.I may try Bismarkia outside next winter with major protection!
Wouldn't it be cool to have a Bismarkia growing in Iowa!
Oh well,it's nice to dream and who knows?
Imagine trying to protect a Bismarkia after a few years

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:48 am

A bismarkia in Iowa would be quite the sight for sure. I think when it got big you could build a removable green house around it. S. louisiana seems to be the palm to try I know where there's a giant one in Daytona in the woods that would be really hard for anyone to find, I don't even know how I found it exploring I guess. I'm going to try and get some seeds off it when I there in Nov. hope there is some. Maybe I'll dig it up in the spring and bring it home with me

I want to collect a bunch of seeds from unusual looking palms.

Bill

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:38 pm

I will try it only if they seem doomed inside,they are probably not the best house palms,the unique ones never are

Your right about the small working G-house,I think they are hardy only to about 25F
They do like being dry in winter and wet and hot in summer so who knows? It's a nice dream.

anttisepp · Post by **anttisepp** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:56 am

I had Nannorhops (green and blue),
Washy (filifera and filibusta),
2 Sabal minor - all they died.

2 Raphys steel don't move (spear rot).
Trachy takil and nana also.

But Trachy fortunei (5), wagnerianus (2), Butia eriosp., Jubea and 2 Chamerops are fine.

Among other exots the best is blue passionflower, Camelia, Fig tree, bamboo and Dicksonia antarctica.
Amazing but Cycas panzhihuanensis survived and give new leaf.

Experiments continue, only praying for Warming. (2 cold summer).

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:27 am

Sorry to hear you lost those Antti,glad to hear your other palms made it!
Good to hear from you again

Barrie · Post by **Barrie** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:52 pm

Sabal 'Birmingham' has been rock solid even as a small specimen.
It's never shown any stress but it's also a somewhat slow grower here.
It may pick up once it gains in size.

Cheers, Barrie.

Pic taken today (Jan31-2010)

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:34 pm

Looks good, Barrie.
I'm sold on Sabal after reading this thread. I have a couple of S. mexicanum in the house I bought in Dallas in October (5 gal. size) I'll try in the ground. They'll get good protection.
Then in Spring I'll make a road trip to "Amazing Gardens" with the truck for a big Sabal, "Lousiana" or "Birmingham"--whatever I can get that is big (15 - 30 gal.). I'd like at least one palm I can see and enjoy in the winter.

--Erik

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:42 pm

I have found with Sabal that they need to be starting divided leaves are already into them to
have a chance here,otherwise to slow and not enough grow.
The one exception so far has been Brazoria.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:52 pm

My 5 gallon S. mexicanum have mature-looking leaves. I'll still protect them from wind next winter.
I'm hoping to get really big Sabal by driving to Amazing Gardens in a truck vs. mail order.
If they have Brazoria, do you recomend them? I was thinking "Louisiana" myself.
--Erik

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:46 pm

Both are great.

S.Louisiana came back from defoliation last fall/winter and grew 3-4 leaves,
that's pretty dang good for a Sabal.
Brazoria is incredibly cold hardy even when small,mine has only strap leaves.
It puts out 2 leaves every summer so far.
It may be this hardy because it's so close to the ground but still it's getting established!

I need to do some serious pruning on a Maple in my yard to get it(Sabal) and others some sun-argggggg

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:53 pm

I have a spot in mind with lots of sun: the SE side of a Gazebo (the one my poor Trachy is on the NE side of). It'll get AM sun, and sun pretty much all day except for the late afternoon in Summer. And wind protection from the NW for the winter. No tall trees anywhere nearby. Good soil. I don't need a tree there, so a big but trunkless Sabal would be perfect. I just want to be able to look out the window and see palm fronds all winter, or at least all but the dozen or so worst days.
--Erik

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:27 pm

Look out the window and see palm fronds......

sounds like a good plan!

serj · Post by **serj** » Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:36 pm

Antti, i'm sorry to hear this. Could you tell me what is the troubles was happened with your palms?

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:06 pm

This isn't my trial, but close by. I was at the Tulsa Zoo today. They have numerous Sabal minor outdoors with no protection from cold or wind. They all look great!
The Zoo has a great horticultural staff and a huge heated greenhouse. They dig and bring in a lot of plants for the winter. That they decided to leave a couple dozen Sabal minor of different sizes in the ground with no protection at all shows me the confidence they have in this species on the Zone 6/7 margin. For me, another reason to shop for Sabal this Spring.

PalmsNorth.com

Which palms have you tried outside?

Which palms have you tried outside?

Planted palms

Sabal

Dwarf palmetto

Who is online